This is so comprehensive; many thanks!! Question - in your descriptions of the court cards, is it possible that perhaps knights and kings are switched? That seems much more congruent with the decan wheel + rider waite descriptions.
As an aside, you may also find you connect more to the Thoth versions of those courts, with Princes being equivalent to Knights and Knights being equivalent to Kings. It's a different look at the same things, but despite my largely working with RWS, I do definitely see the merit of those interpretations. On that podcast one of the two hosts is a Thoth reader, so it's a good way to be able to hear from both of those perspectives!
Great question, the suits of the Knights and Kings threw me for a loop at first as well and I wondered the same thing! But indeed Knights are Air/Swords and Kings are Fire/Wands. The way I have come to interpret those suits, boiled down to keywords, is "willpower" for Wands and "choice" for Swords. Air and Fire are the "active" elements, and each one tends to move upward, which also puts them in the position of being felt as powerful and conflicting - the Swords and Wands cards are certainly the ones in the deck most likely to show direct conflict, as one's choices or force of will to accomplish a goal come at odds with the choices and will of others. They have a lot in common, but I think the big distinguishing factor for me is the difference between action in the Wands, and choice in the Swords. One cannot be had without the other, but they are different.
Knights examine what is before them and resolve themselves to a choice, no matter the conflict it takes to do so. They are set in their choices and do not waver in their stance; as a soldier, they do not question their orders, they carry them out no matter the cost. If the Queen sets the foundation for something new, the Knight is the one on the battlefield ensuring that her will is carried out.
Kings, however, are in a position to recognize what works and what doesn't about the system the Knight has ensured is securely in place. With his ability to see the best possible outcome, he is willing to dismantle parts of the system and change them in ways that will ultimately lead to the achievement of his goals, even if those changes don't necessarily make sense to everyone else; he has foresight and his will goes beyond the immediate, unlike the Knight who is fully invested in the task or choice at hand.
This is also reflected in the minors associated with each of these courts; the Knight has a 4, 5, and 6, and the 5's are all points of conflict and loss, moments of battle, as it were, where one can't spend too much time thinking about how things will turn out, because the conflict demands the full attention of the leader in the moment. Kings have a 7, 8, and 9; they are in the position to see something through to the end, and to set the precedent for what will come after them with intention.
Both Air and Fire are sources of great change, but I think the difference truly lies in the deeper meanings of those types of change. I recommend looking more into it to seek out those differences! There is a fantastic podcast called Fortune's Wheelhouse, from which I learned (and still learn!) a lot, that has an episode on each and every card in the deck, and then some. I suggest the episodes on the suits of Swords and Wands, as well as the episodes on Knights and Kings, to deepen that understanding of why we associate these courts with these elements.
I truly cannot thank you enough for this…I’m so excited, intrigued, and blown away by your granularity - thank you! I will also most definitely check out the Fortune’s Wheehouse podcast ASAP; many thanks for the recommendation! One quick clarification question for you, as I am new to tarot and deeply trying to understand all the many facets: am I right that your above description is rooted in the “Golden Dawn” teachings? I recently picked up the book, “The Ultimate Guide to Tarot” by Liz Dean where she introduced the idea that Kings are Air and Knights are Fire (she goes into greater detail here):
Certainly an interesting perspective, but one thing I notice is the comparison of Kings to the Emperor as a reasoning for association with Swords - the Emperor, however, is the card of Aries, a fire sign. I can understand the emphasis of the warrior side of the Kings, but the way I look at it, a King is much more than just a warrior, whereas warrior is the Knight's primary role. In the episode for Elemental Fire on Fortune's Wheelhouse, Chang and Meleen discuss how Fire is the essence of life; it is our passion, and in many ways it is the soul of who we are. The King, in this perspective, is the soul of the kingdom, the leader and the directional force of what truly drives it forward. I can definitely see the reasoning behind Kings as Air-like as it pertains to thought, wisdom, and authority; however authority is also very much an aspect of Fire, perhaps even the most, as the Sun rules Leo, another Fire sign, and Jupiter rules Sagittarius, with these planets often representing the utmost of "good" or "noble" power, while Saturn (edit for clarification: since Saturn rules Aquarius, an Air sign, and the primary sign of the Knight of Swords, Air of Air) represents a disciplinary or boundary-enforcing power, a duty that typically falls under the responsibility of soldiers - or Knights.
To answer your first question, I do ascribe more to the Golden Dawn perspective, because while I may not agree with all of their approaches, the delineations they arrived at were influenced by many perspectives coming together, and rooted in magic traditions that survived for millennia, rather than an individual's perspective or solely a line of logic. Arthur Edward Waite and Pamela Coleman Smith were both members of the Golden Dawn, and there are many characteristics of their Kings and Knights which symbolize their elements. Armor, for example, is present in both Fire and Air cards, because the archetype of war and defense is something the "active" elements share with each other, as they prepare to shape new realities and defend them.
At the end of the day, I don't think I see any harm in interpreting the cards a different way, but for my own use I do pay heed to the fact that elemental and planetary associations were not derived arbitrarily or purely by logic, but were deeply tied to the mythical and symbolic understandings of those archetypes shared by practices across the world. And, to move away for a moment from purely logic-based reasoning, I have found the associations of Kings with Fire and Knights with Air to be quite poignant in my readings; when I turn over a Knight card and look at it from the perspective of Air, it tracks very well with interpretation of the card in the reading, and the same with Kings and Fire.
Thank you for sharing that resource though, I was passively aware of Liz Dean but had not encountered her work directly. I think it's interesting and thought-provoking to hear other perspectives, because it may either shift my own, or allow me to challenge my own conceptions of these concepts and hone them in a way that helps me more clearly formulate why I see things the way I do!
So incredibly helpful and insightful; thank you for openness and willingness to explain and elaborate in such great detail and entertain alternative perspectives! I really appreciate you and look forward to my continued tarot journey! I see that you discontinued posting awhile back...really hope to read and discover more from you :)
Of course, thank you for your curiosity! Yes, I have been working on a post (actually about the elements in tarot, I was surprised to spot a question about the very subject here!) for a good while, but otherwise have been caught up in life. Surely more to come, though maybe a little further down the line. Good luck in your journey in the meantime!
oooh...this one was juicy. thank you so much for delving into the many nuances of the court cards! they are what i struggle with most in my tarot readings, so i really appreciate this and will be referring back to it in the future. <3
This is so comprehensive; many thanks!! Question - in your descriptions of the court cards, is it possible that perhaps knights and kings are switched? That seems much more congruent with the decan wheel + rider waite descriptions.
As an aside, you may also find you connect more to the Thoth versions of those courts, with Princes being equivalent to Knights and Knights being equivalent to Kings. It's a different look at the same things, but despite my largely working with RWS, I do definitely see the merit of those interpretations. On that podcast one of the two hosts is a Thoth reader, so it's a good way to be able to hear from both of those perspectives!
You are truly, THE BEST, thank you!! :)
Thank you for your feedback! :)
Great question, the suits of the Knights and Kings threw me for a loop at first as well and I wondered the same thing! But indeed Knights are Air/Swords and Kings are Fire/Wands. The way I have come to interpret those suits, boiled down to keywords, is "willpower" for Wands and "choice" for Swords. Air and Fire are the "active" elements, and each one tends to move upward, which also puts them in the position of being felt as powerful and conflicting - the Swords and Wands cards are certainly the ones in the deck most likely to show direct conflict, as one's choices or force of will to accomplish a goal come at odds with the choices and will of others. They have a lot in common, but I think the big distinguishing factor for me is the difference between action in the Wands, and choice in the Swords. One cannot be had without the other, but they are different.
Knights examine what is before them and resolve themselves to a choice, no matter the conflict it takes to do so. They are set in their choices and do not waver in their stance; as a soldier, they do not question their orders, they carry them out no matter the cost. If the Queen sets the foundation for something new, the Knight is the one on the battlefield ensuring that her will is carried out.
Kings, however, are in a position to recognize what works and what doesn't about the system the Knight has ensured is securely in place. With his ability to see the best possible outcome, he is willing to dismantle parts of the system and change them in ways that will ultimately lead to the achievement of his goals, even if those changes don't necessarily make sense to everyone else; he has foresight and his will goes beyond the immediate, unlike the Knight who is fully invested in the task or choice at hand.
This is also reflected in the minors associated with each of these courts; the Knight has a 4, 5, and 6, and the 5's are all points of conflict and loss, moments of battle, as it were, where one can't spend too much time thinking about how things will turn out, because the conflict demands the full attention of the leader in the moment. Kings have a 7, 8, and 9; they are in the position to see something through to the end, and to set the precedent for what will come after them with intention.
Both Air and Fire are sources of great change, but I think the difference truly lies in the deeper meanings of those types of change. I recommend looking more into it to seek out those differences! There is a fantastic podcast called Fortune's Wheelhouse, from which I learned (and still learn!) a lot, that has an episode on each and every card in the deck, and then some. I suggest the episodes on the suits of Swords and Wands, as well as the episodes on Knights and Kings, to deepen that understanding of why we associate these courts with these elements.
Again great question, and thank you for reading!
I truly cannot thank you enough for this…I’m so excited, intrigued, and blown away by your granularity - thank you! I will also most definitely check out the Fortune’s Wheehouse podcast ASAP; many thanks for the recommendation! One quick clarification question for you, as I am new to tarot and deeply trying to understand all the many facets: am I right that your above description is rooted in the “Golden Dawn” teachings? I recently picked up the book, “The Ultimate Guide to Tarot” by Liz Dean where she introduced the idea that Kings are Air and Knights are Fire (she goes into greater detail here):
https://lizdean.info/whats-with-the-tarot-kings/
Any thoughts on this and how it may or may not support your perspective/approach?
Certainly an interesting perspective, but one thing I notice is the comparison of Kings to the Emperor as a reasoning for association with Swords - the Emperor, however, is the card of Aries, a fire sign. I can understand the emphasis of the warrior side of the Kings, but the way I look at it, a King is much more than just a warrior, whereas warrior is the Knight's primary role. In the episode for Elemental Fire on Fortune's Wheelhouse, Chang and Meleen discuss how Fire is the essence of life; it is our passion, and in many ways it is the soul of who we are. The King, in this perspective, is the soul of the kingdom, the leader and the directional force of what truly drives it forward. I can definitely see the reasoning behind Kings as Air-like as it pertains to thought, wisdom, and authority; however authority is also very much an aspect of Fire, perhaps even the most, as the Sun rules Leo, another Fire sign, and Jupiter rules Sagittarius, with these planets often representing the utmost of "good" or "noble" power, while Saturn (edit for clarification: since Saturn rules Aquarius, an Air sign, and the primary sign of the Knight of Swords, Air of Air) represents a disciplinary or boundary-enforcing power, a duty that typically falls under the responsibility of soldiers - or Knights.
To answer your first question, I do ascribe more to the Golden Dawn perspective, because while I may not agree with all of their approaches, the delineations they arrived at were influenced by many perspectives coming together, and rooted in magic traditions that survived for millennia, rather than an individual's perspective or solely a line of logic. Arthur Edward Waite and Pamela Coleman Smith were both members of the Golden Dawn, and there are many characteristics of their Kings and Knights which symbolize their elements. Armor, for example, is present in both Fire and Air cards, because the archetype of war and defense is something the "active" elements share with each other, as they prepare to shape new realities and defend them.
At the end of the day, I don't think I see any harm in interpreting the cards a different way, but for my own use I do pay heed to the fact that elemental and planetary associations were not derived arbitrarily or purely by logic, but were deeply tied to the mythical and symbolic understandings of those archetypes shared by practices across the world. And, to move away for a moment from purely logic-based reasoning, I have found the associations of Kings with Fire and Knights with Air to be quite poignant in my readings; when I turn over a Knight card and look at it from the perspective of Air, it tracks very well with interpretation of the card in the reading, and the same with Kings and Fire.
Thank you for sharing that resource though, I was passively aware of Liz Dean but had not encountered her work directly. I think it's interesting and thought-provoking to hear other perspectives, because it may either shift my own, or allow me to challenge my own conceptions of these concepts and hone them in a way that helps me more clearly formulate why I see things the way I do!
So incredibly helpful and insightful; thank you for openness and willingness to explain and elaborate in such great detail and entertain alternative perspectives! I really appreciate you and look forward to my continued tarot journey! I see that you discontinued posting awhile back...really hope to read and discover more from you :)
Of course, thank you for your curiosity! Yes, I have been working on a post (actually about the elements in tarot, I was surprised to spot a question about the very subject here!) for a good while, but otherwise have been caught up in life. Surely more to come, though maybe a little further down the line. Good luck in your journey in the meantime!
oooh...this one was juicy. thank you so much for delving into the many nuances of the court cards! they are what i struggle with most in my tarot readings, so i really appreciate this and will be referring back to it in the future. <3
I'm so happy to hear that!! They're definitely confusing, I just got 2 in one reading today and I was like "hoo boy."